2013 Plato Seminar Conference

2013 Plato Seminar Conference

2:00-4:45

Morrison Hall 107

2:00-2:20    “Socrates- a paragon of rationality?”  -Jared Brandt

2:30-2:50   “Education, Courage, and the Homeric Warrior Ethic:

      A Reflection on the Laches”   - Nathan L. Cartagena

3:00-3:20   “A Mythological Critique of Eros in Plato’s Symposium” -  Benjamin Guido

3:30-3:45    Break

3:45-4:05    “Cave Diving: An In-Depth Analysis of the Social, Spiritual,

and Philosophic Messages of the Allegory of the Cave”   -Bryant Windham

4:15-4:35    “The Dialectic Of Giveness in The Myth Of Er”   - Matt Wilson

Theaetetus as Plato's Second Apology

 HEre's a link to a review of   a new book that links the Theaetetus to the Apology.


http://www.bmcreview.org/2013/11/20131147.html

Rotation for paper exchanges

Jared to Ben
Ben to Matt
Matt to Nathan
Nathan to Bryant
Bryant to Jared 

link to Hegel's lectures on the history of philosophy

 Jared's question  about Hegel and SK and socrates, got me thinking about what Hegel says about Plato.   

Here's the link.


http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/hp/hpplato.htm

Anne's Abstract

Hi All,

Here is an abstract that Paul Carron and I worked up for the  Midwest Christian Philosophers meeting.  

“Advice to a Christian Philosopher – Pray like Socrates!”

Anne-Marie Schultz and Paul E. Carron

Honors College, Baylor University

Anne_Marie_Schultz@baylor.edu

Paul_Carron@baylor.edu

In this essay we make two related claims: the first is that Socratic knowledge consists of more than cognitive assent to propositional truth claims: as Hadot states, “When Socrates said that virtue is knowledge, he was not using ‘knowledge’ to mean pure, abstract knowledge of the good. Rather, he meant knowledge which chooses and wants the good—in other words, an inner disposition in which thought, will, and desire are one.”[1]  The second related claim is the main focus of this essay: cultivating this unified inner disposition requires practices alongside discourse – indeed, it demands extra-rational sources of knowledge.  Many religious traditions include the idea that knowledge is more than cognitive assent and therefore have other means (besides just rational discourse) to attaining that knowledge.  For instance, strains in the Buddhist and Christian traditions include prayer and other meditative techniques as methods of coming to a greater understanding of reality and the self.  The Socratic dialogues also contain hints of a number of “extra-rational” prayer-like sources of knowledge such as: intense dialectical philosophical discussion; taking the Delphic oracle seriously through inquiry (which we argue is a display of piety and not anti-religious rationalism contra Vlastos); spiritual exercises such as mediation as illustrated in Socrates’ moments of silence in the Symposium and the Phaedo; the intense concentration required to even briefly glimpse true beauty in the assent passage in the Symposium; indications of the longer way in the Republic; qualifications about complete discursive knowledge of the good in numerous dialogues; and the turn to myth at the end of the Republic, Phaedo, and Gorgias.  We argue that taken together these various instances demonstrate that Socratic knowledge is not acquired through rational discourse alone, but through a number of prayer-like methods that help the self to cultivate a unified disposition of love for the good.  Furthermore, the Socratic model offers productive ways of thinking about philosophical Christian experience in the contemporary world, thereby illustrating what is at the heart of Platinga’s exhortations to Christian philosophers: Be like Socrates.

---

[1] Pierre Hadot, What is Ancient Philosophy? 2002: 65 (our emphasis).

Class today and schedule for the next couple weeks

Hi All,

Looking forward to class today,  Matt,  Nathan, and Bryant,  please post your blogs when you get a chance.

Next week   I'll be away at the Ancient Philosophy Society meeting held in  conjunction with SPEP. 

Your abstracts are due. 

Please post your abstracts to the blog   and  read each other's abstracts.  Please offer  each other comments.  You don't need to do an additional blog post. 


What I have decided to do about 10/31 when the SK  conference is  here,  let's meet  from 2-2:40 and we'll go over the opening of the Phaedo.  Please do a blog for this week    Then we will head over for the   3  PM  session  that  Matt is presenting  in.


We'll do the rest of the  Phaedo on Nov  7.

Meet at 2:30 today

Hi  All,  Just a reminder that we meet at  2:30 today.

Great  job with the blogs. I encourage you to spend the  30 minutes of class time  reading and responding to each others blogs!


Nathan was asking about some historical background issues.  I refer you to Nails' People of Plato  and also  this  article.



Gifford, M. “Dramatic Dialectic in Republic Book 1.” In Oxford Studies in Ancient Philosophy Volume XX. Ed. David Sedley. Oxford: Oxford University Press, (2001): 34-106.

Good essay by Benjamin Barber

Hi All, you might enjoy this essay by Benjamin Barber which deals with the relationship between various sorts of philosophers/philosophies  democracy and tyranny.


http://www.historytoday.com/benjamin-barber/theory-and-practice-democracy-and-philosophers

general plan for tomorrow

Hi All,

We'll talk about the image of the sun as an offspring of the good.
the idea of the good,  theory of forms  and  revist  the cave.

Like Socrates,  I am greedy for images.

Then we'll turn things over to  Ben.

Looking forward to it. 



Jared mentioned the apparent justification for slavery in  Books 8 and 9.  I recently read  the introduction  to  a  fascinating book  Here's the  link to a review.http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2013/2013-08-44.html  Slaves and Slavery in Ancient Greek Comic Drama

Here are a few of my reading notes from the book. 

“Athenian civic ideology posited a categorical distinction between the Athenian citizen and others, defining him by opposition as not a woman, not a slave and not a barbarian, and as the possessor for freedom, legal rights and access to political  participation.  For such an ideology to function, the categories of non-citizen others had to be carefully constructed and distinctions maintained” (44).

In Athens, slaves and free people were often indistinguishable from one another” (45). 

“Legal oratory shows a deep anxiety among Athenian citizens that foreigners and perhaps slaves might masquerade as citizens and  escape detection” (45). 

“many slaves had formerly been free Greeks. An important element of free attitudes to slaves was an awareness of the precariousness of freedom. Free people knew (and feared) that they could one day lose their freedom and fall into the same conditions as their slaves” (46).

Falling into debt, warfare, piracy at sea,  professional kidnappers,  abandoned infants  found and raised as slaves   (46-47). 

 

The relationship  between slave as master was at its root one of violent domination. But this should not be taken to imply that there were not strategies of accommodation and cooperation… (47)

Encouragements for slaves-  better food  eventual  freedom  (49). 

“Feeling like slaves in all kinds of everyday situations” (51). 

“Salaried  work… heading down a slippery slope towards slavery” ( 51).

Some helpful references

 Hi All,  I did a quick search for  Greek views on insects and came across this article.  It notes references to bugs  prior to Aristotle.  Bees were apparently viewed of as a positive model of communal living.


http://promethee.philo.ulg.ac.be/Zoologica/lbodson/bibl/Insects_1983.pdf


Matt was asking about  the concept of  being.  The landmark article on this  is   C. Kahn

The Greek Verb 'To Be' and the Concept of Being

Charles H. Kahn

Foundations of Language , Vol. 2, No. 3 (Aug., 1966), pp. 245-265

You can get it through jstor

http://www.jstor.org.ezproxy.baylor.edu/stable/25000229 


I also recommend    Seth Benardete's  Second  Sailing, and Stanley Rosen's  Plato's Republic.

 

Sign up for Second set of Presentations on the Theaetetus

Here is  a list of topics for the second presentation.   The divisions of the Theaetetus are taken from the Stanford Encylopedia of Philosophy, you might find this article a helpful place to begin your navigation of the Theaetetus.

First come first serve in terms of sign up.


Theaetetus Presentation Topics

Week Twelve   November 14

Introduction of the dialogue 142a-145e NATHAN

Definition by Examples   146a-151d  MATT

Week Thirteen    November 21

First definition of Knowledge:  Knowledge is Perception 151e-187a  BEN

Second definition of Knowledge: Knowledge is True Judgement 187b-201c BRYANT

Third Definition of Knowledge:  Knowledge is True Judgement With an Account 201d-210a  JARED

Guidelines for Plato Papers

The end result is a conference paper that you will read during our in class conference on the last day of  class. 

The paper should be 3000 words. It should focus on some important aspect of one of Plato’s dialogues that we discuss in class.

Given the short length of the paper, I suggest focusing on one dialogue rather than a discussion of a theme than ranges over more than one dialogue. 

The paper should demonstrate some awareness of the secondary literature on this topic.  For example, I just looked at a recent conference paper I co wrote with a BIC colleague and former Baylor grad student, Paul Carron,  and  I have a  long footnote that mentions relevant literature and  then we  cite  7-8 sources in the paper.   I will email you that  paper for your perusal.   I will also  send  a paper I gave last year at the Ancient Philosophy Society and International Plato Society as another model.

I encourage you to explore philosophical issues and ideas that you have interests in in light of  Plato. 

 I  encourage you to submit the paper to a conference.   Several participants of  previous seminars  presented at the Society of Ancient Greek Philosophy in New York City. The deadline for that submission is in June.   In the past five years,  15 Baylor graduate students have presented at this conference. 

http://www.societyancientgreekphilosophy.com/

For those  who finish  their papers a bit early, the Ancient Philosophy Society call for  papers is Nov  25. One former Baylor student has presented on this  program.

http://www.ancientphilosophysociety.org/

A new book on Plato you might find valuable

 The notion of  different models of philosophy came up in a couple of your blogs.  There's a new book out  that  addresses precisely this notion.

Roslyn Weiss, Philosophers in the 'Republic': Plato’s Two Paradigms.   Ithaca; London:  Cornell University Press, 2012.  Pp. xi, 236.  ISBN 9780801449741.  $49.95.  

 Here's a link to the Bryn Mawr  classical review of  it

http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2013/2013-03-33.html

General plan for today

Questions from you?  About  presentations about  Plato?
A bit about Homer and Hesiod
A bit about  Greek Religion
Critiques of  Greek Religion in Greek  Philosophy
Book 2  Critique of  Homer
Book 3  More on  Homer,   The noble lie
Book IV  justice,  parts of the soul,  two models of  virtue formation;  self-mastery,  harmony.

Bryant's blog

Bryant is  having some technological issues.

Here's  his contribution for  today.

Bryant Windham

Blog 3

What is most striking about Book III is how Socrates manages to take Glaucon and Adeimantus  through their previous arguments step by step, and convince them to refuse their own previous requests and demands of the city. In a way of moving the veil aside and stepping outside the dialogue to view it as a whole and a work to be read, one can find many a flaw in the character (that is to say the character as role, not character as it has to do with personality) of Socrates.

What sticks out most troubling with the role of Socrates in this part of the dialogue is the extent to which Plato pampers him. Many of his arguments which go quite uncontested by the two brothers with whom Socrates is discussing have fatal flaws or draw tenuous connections. For example, to compare gymnastics to music at such a functional level as Socrates does simply does not follow (unless he were to be discussing the amount of time and practice necessary to maintain proficiency), yet neither brother raises so much as an eyebrow to this or the many other flawed arguments unless he is stating that he does not understand.

While Socrates’ overarching argument that the luxuries of a city can be its downfall do carry credence, the way in which Plato allows his assertions to go untested or unrefuted is to an extent troubling for the philosophy that Socrates tends to espouse. He is, after all, the one who stands as such a high supporter of questioning everything that he can in his search for wisdom, and yet he is not truly questioned here. Whereas Socrates is the gadfly of Athens, there is not even a mayfly to the founding rules of this new republic. So while he argument does not suffer from the lack of refutation, his example seems to fall short of what Plato is encouraging, unless Socrates is to be the only practitioner of philosophy in the dialogue. So while Socrates’ points still remain, the point of Socrates is more vague.

Presentation Sign ups

Hi Everyone,   Great job in class on Thursday.   I'm very much looking forward to our discussion of the last part of book 2-4 next week. 


Here's the  list of presentation topics.   Just email me  what you'd like to present on sometime before class on Thursday and I'll up date this list.

Week Four     September 19  Republic   5,  6, and   7

·      The three waves   Book 5   JARED

·      The image of the sun and the Divided Line Book 6 MATT

·      Cave  Book  7  BRYANT

Week Five     September 26    Republic        8 and  9   

·      The regimes and corresponding states of soul   BEN

        

Week Six       October  3   Republic  10 

·      A reconsideration of the arts  ANNE

·      Myth of Er - NATHAN

Great start on Thursday possible blog prompts for the Republic

Hi Everyone,

just a note to say I really enjoyed class on Thursday.  I apologize for not getting to a discussion of  death and the soul.  We'll talk a bit about  that  at the start of  class Thursday.  

Some possible  blog  posts  about  Republic  1  and  2.


Reflect on the signficance of the opening scene of the dialogue.
In what ways does Book 1  seem like a dialogue in and of itself?
Why does it matter that Socrates participates in the conversation under a certain kind of constraint?
Describe Cephalus as a person and how his views on justice reflect his personal circumstance.
Describe Polemarchus as a person  and how his views on justice reflect his personal circumstance.
Describe Thraysmachus as a person and how his view on justice reflect his personal circumstance.
How does  Socrates  treat  each of the interlocutors?
What do we learn by observing what Socrates describes about the  events?
Assess the relative merits of  each of the three definitions of  Justice.
Which characters  admit  aporia?

Why does Socrates think he is finished with the conversation after Book1?
How does Glaucon persuade him to stay.
What is the philosophical import of the ring of gyges story?
What do you think of the city and soul  analogy  as a means of finding the nature of justice?
Describe life  in the  city of necessity.
Why does Glaucon reject this city?
What is  different in the luxurious city?
What is the gist of  Socrates' gripe with Homer and the poets?

General plan for today

Hi All,

Here's the  general plan for  today.

1.  Introductions
2. Baylor Fellows and  pedagogical emphasis
3.  Plato wrote dialogues to  display what is  involved in the practice of  philosophy
4.  Plato wrote dialogues to  draw us into practicing philosophy through the practice of  reading them together.
5.  A word or two  about  dramatic form and  how the Apology follows that form
6.  Questions from you (welcome at  any stage)
7.  A few words about  death and the soul.

Your  blogs were  great.  I very much enjoyed reading them and I encourage you to read and comment on  each other's blogs  before  class.  


AMS

Book recommendation

Osborne, Robin.  Athens and Athenian Democracy. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2010.

This is a very thorough book, really a collection of essays that Osborne wrote over the course of his career about  numerous aspects of  Athenians History and Culture. If you were going to read one book  to dispel the myths of what we know about Athens, I would recommend this one.

Possible Blog Posts for the Apology

1. Describe your previous experiences with reading the Apology.
2. Do you approach the Apology differently  in the context of a graduate seminar, if so how?
3.  Describe Socrates' self -presentation.
4. How does Socrates describe his relationship with the city?
5.  How does Socrates describe his relationship with god/the gods?
6.  How would you describe the public role of the philosopher based on this dialogue?
7.  What is the overall purpose of the refutation of Meletus?
8. Is  Socrates a sympathetic character?
9.  Do you have a favorite argument in the Apology?
10. What are Socrates' views about death?
11. Do what extent do you model yourself after Socrates? qua budding professional philosopher?  qua  student of  philosophy/  qua  teacher of  philosophy.
12.  What does Socrates know  that the poets, craftsmen, and politicians do not?

Greetings Plato Seminar Participants

Hello Blog  world,

You have stumbled upon the  class blog for  Dr. Schultz's Plato Seminar 2013.  I'm  excited to get started reading  Plato this semester.

Here's  a version of  the syllabus

Plato Seminar 2013

Telling Tales of Socrates: Crafting a Philosophical Epic

Anne-Marie Schultz

Thursdays 2:00-4:45

Morrison 107

"The safest generalization that can be made about the history of Western Philosophy is that it is all a series of footnotes to Plato."  Albert North Whitehead

“The long story of mistakes about Plato will certainly never be finished.”

Holger Thesleff

“Nothing could be more helpful to present philosophizing  than a ‘Back to Plato’ movement.”   John Dewey.

In this course, we will engage in a careful reading of Plato’s Apology, Symposium, Republic, Phaedo, and Theaetetus. Our focus will be the different portraits of Socrates and the different portraits of the practice of philosophy that emerge in these diverse dialogues. This exploration will illuminate the complex relationships between ethics, metaphysics, epistemology, and aesthetics in Plato’s dialogues. The course ends with a conference where each seminar participant will read and respond to a paper.  

 Required Texts:

Complete Works. Plato, Ed. John M. Cooper. Indianapolis: Hackett, 1997.ISBN 0-87220-349-2.

Suggested Texts:    The People of Plato.  D. Nails.   Indianapolis: Hackett.

Course Goals:
To read and interpret Plato's dialogues.

To become aware of the broad range of  scholarly interpretations of  Plato.

To write a conference length paper.

To attain a competency in teaching Plato at the undergraduate level.

 To increase self-knowledge.

Office and Office Hours: My office is 101 Morrison. The  best way to get in touch with me  is via email Anne_Marie_Schultz@baylor.edu.  I am also available via phone at  512-468 2808

 
My office hours are  Thursdays from  12:30-2:00 and other times by appointment. Please contact Mildred_Hubbard@baylor.edu to schedule an appointment with me. 

Course Calendar

Week One   August 29  Apology  

We will end at  3:30 due to  a faculty meeting I must attend. 

Week Two    September 5  Republic   1 and  2

Week  Three   September  12  Republic   3 and  4

Week Four     September 19  Republic   5,  6, and   7

Week Five     September 26    Republic        8 and  9   

        

Week Six       October  3   Republic  10 

Week  Seven   October  10  Symposium

Week  Eight   October  17    Symposium

Week Nine    October  24   No Class  Dr. Schultz at SPEP  in conjunction with her duties as co-director of the Ancient Plato Society.

   Abstracts due. 

Week Ten  October  31  Phaedo

Week Eleven    Nov   7  Phaedo

Week Twelve   Nov  14   Theaetetus

Week Thirteen  Nov   21   Theaetetus

Drafts due sometime after class on the 21^st but before noon on the  26th

Week Fourteen  Nov   28   No Class  Thanksgiving

Paper edits due  no later than  noon  Monday December  2.

Week Fifteen  December  5   Class  Conference.  

Final Papers  due December 12.